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Classic Traveller Rules Question - Snowgen - 07-27-2023
From Book 1, Characters and Combat (Second Edition), page 34 (emphasis added):
Quote:Wound points are applied to the target's (defending character's) strength, dexterity, and endurance on a temporary basis. Each die rolled (for example, each of the two dice rolled in a result of 2D) is taken as a single wound or group of hits, and must be applied to a single characteristic.
From Book 3, Worlds & Adventures (Second Edition), page 30:
Quote:For simplicity, the damage dice should be rolled once when the animal is generated; the animal would inflict that number of hits every time it hits...
On page 35 of Book 3 is a sample encounter table. The first entry on the table is a 200Kg Hijacker that does 11 wound points with its teeth.
So, rules as written, this Hijacker does a flat 11 points of damage every round, except no dice are thrown. Because Book 1 says that each die is assign to a single characteristic then technically, because there are no dice, the player doesn't have to assign the wound points anywhere and is immune from the animal's damage (other than on the first round, but that's a different story).
Clearly this is incorrect. My guess is that this was just a sloppy edit and no one at GDW was playing by the rules as written. MegaTraveller uses a different damage system where you don't track each die separately, and maybe they were already using that in-house.
So the question is, how does one handle this? I see these options:
- The "11" is one set of wounds and must be taken against a single stat.
- Let the player divvy the wound points any way they want. Note: this makes animal encounters less dangerous then other combat.
- Forget Book 3's suggestion "for simplicity" and just roll the actual damage every time.
- Instead of recording the total ("11" in this case) record each die (maybe this one was "2/4/5")
Option #1 was how I read the intent of the rules when I first read them, but makes animals more effective at putting someone down than a shotgun.
Option #2 is supported by the first edition of the rules (Book 1, page 34) that state (emphasis added):
Quote:Each die rolled (for example, each of the two dice rolled in a result of 2D) is taken as a single wound or group of hits, and must be applied to a single characteristic; further modifications may be distributed against, or added to, such wound groups as desired (players do this themselves; the referee does it for non-player characters).
Option #3 is supported in the second edition's book 3 where states "If the referee wishes to take the trouble, he can roll the proper number of dice every time the animal hits..."
Option #4 is just something I invented.
For now I'm leaning towards option #3. But I'm still very curious (1) how other people (would) handle this, and (2) what the actual intent of the rules are.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - Evil Jeff - 07-29-2023
Just reading through things, I think option #2 is close to #3. If you read #2 without the parenthetical part, I see it as each die is rolled and the number on the rolled die is applied to a single characteristic, unless the desire to spread things out is wanted. I suspect that armor plays some sort of part in the damage either being put to one characteristic or spread around. Taking what the 2nd ed rules say, I suspect the intent of the rules was supposed to be #3 but someone didn't english very well.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - Evil Jeff - 07-30-2023
I remembered a group that I'm part of and figured I would take your question to them to see what their answer might be.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - Snowgen - 07-31-2023
(07-30-2023, 10:46 PM)Evil Jeff Wrote: I remembered a group that I'm part of and figured I would take your question to them to see what their answer might be.
I'm going to ask on the Citizens of the Imperium boards as well
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - Evil Jeff - 08-02-2023
Here is a compilation of replies:
I have always used your option #3. It did not make sense to me, apart from the rules, that an animal does the exact same damage every time. Big enough beasts, say starting at 400kg, can put a PC down hard anyway if they get a hit. But give the PCs a chance by rolling the dice. Remember that as size increases, animals get damage bonuses to whatever natural weapon it uses. (TTB, p. 94, 'Animal Sizes and Weaponry' table).
I concur - roll each time. Damage, excepting first blood, is supposed to be blocked out by dice, and the damage rules and amounts for weapons flat out assume 2D average for attributes. 11 each hit would screw someone over hard and fast making them much more dealy (sic)
I see the distribution of dice from a damage pool as a way to give the players an edge of flexibility over NPCs. With NPCs the dice go all against one attribute at a time, whether it's the first or fourth hit. PC's on the other hand, if they take the first hit and are still standing, can 'spread out' the subsequent damage to stay in the fight longer. Of course, the more you drain the three attributes, the more likely it is that another hit will be Serious Wounds or Death. But if it's important to the player to be able to fight on, then the distribution method makes that possible.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - chgowiz - 08-04-2023
Are you looking at 1981 or Starter or Deluxe/Traveler Book or Fascimile? Because in CT77, I see different things. Clearly this was updated in 1981.
Book 3, Pg 26
Animal Weaponry: Animals are naturally equipped with weapons which enable them to attack and defend. >>> Familiar terms such as teeth and claws indicate the effects in the combat system <<<, but should also be considered to approximate other equivalent systems if necessary. In some cases, unusual weaponry is indicated by the statement as (weapon type), for example: as pike. >>> The combat effect may be read from the weapons matrix (and wounding from the range matrix) of the personal combat system of book 1. <<<
>>><<< emphasis mine - I take that as to look at weapon type matrix in book 1 to determine damage dice.
Book 3, Pg 28.
ENCOUNTER TABLE CREATION CHECKLIST
Use this checklist to create unique encounter tables.
...
6. Determine animal weapon.
A. Throw two dice; modify with required DMs.
B. Note weapon or weapons.
...
This seems, to me, to be that I use dice to determine the type of weapon, which bears out when I look at the chart on pg.
On pg 30 of CT77, there is no note like you say.
On pg 32 of CT77, there is a table that lists weapon types, but no damage.
There also is no example of a creature.
I much prefer the CT77 way of doing it - roll the dice and apply just like in Book 1 combat procedure.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - Snowgen - 08-05-2023
(08-04-2023, 12:55 PM)chgowiz Wrote: Are you looking at 1981 or Starter or Deluxe/Traveler Book or Fascimile? Because in CT77, I see different things. Clearly this was updated in 1981.
All my references mentioned that they were from the second edition (except, of course the one that mentions first edition). That's what the 1981 editions call themselves on the title page.
RE: Classic Traveller Rules Question - chgowiz - 08-05-2023
(08-05-2023, 04:10 PM)Snowgen Wrote:(08-04-2023, 12:55 PM)chgowiz Wrote: Are you looking at 1981 or Starter or Deluxe/Traveler Book or Fascimile? Because in CT77, I see different things. Clearly this was updated in 1981.
All my references mentioned that they were from the second edition (except, of course the one that mentions first edition). That's what the 1981 editions call themselves on the title page.
Ah, gotcha. Maybe the CT77 rules will give you some help - I think that I much prefer the "use the combat damage tables" approach to animal damage than the "predetermine it" route.